Dougie "Conscious" Wardrop interviewed by Jakob Levi (Guidelight Movement) at Andreas (Meditative Sounds) apartment 2004-04-08 in the evening time. Culture Freeman later came in and contributed to the interview as well.

Longtime roots and steppers producer who has been around for almost 2 decades. Founder of the Conscious Sounds label and part of The Bush Chemists, Hydrophonics and other music projects. Apart from that also being a well employed sound-engineer by people like Jah Warrior, Reggae On Top and Dubwise Productions to name a few. An old timer on the steppers scene who still got alot to give.

Guidelight Movement: Greetings Dougie Wardrop aka Bush Chemist.

Dougie Wardrop: Greetings.

GLM: Could you introduce yourself for those who don't know who you are?

DW: Alright. My name is Dougie Wardrop of Conscious Sounds records. We produced the Bush Chemists, Hydrophonics, Centry, Dub Specialist and various other little bits and pieces basically.

GLM: How did you get started?

DW: Basically I got started on a small 4-track, cassette mashine which I had in my friends house, Manasseh called Nick Manasseh. Have you heard of him?

GLM: Yes.

DW: And I used to go to his house and make tunes on his little 4-track and it got to the point were some of the tunes sounded really good, I thought. So I decided to release one and it was pretty popular. Made some money and so we made another one. And the money from that we started to make our studio better. We get like an 8-track, you know. Then a little better mixer and so on and so on. And really, till were we are were we are today, quite a bit of a studio now. But we started from nothing really. Just going to (Jah) Shaka, Manasseh. Listening to tunes and hearing tunes like Dread And Fred. Tunes like "Warriors Stance". Until then there were no real steppers, digital steppers really. "Warrior Stance" to me was the one that stood out and made my wanna say whoa! That was the tune. I'd like to make music like that, you know. Because I was always in to stuff. But not so much the new stuff, because most of it at the time…the Jamaican scene was ragga, dancehall, dum dum, you know what mean. And I wasn't really in to that really, you know. Yeah, that's how I started man...

GLM: Alright, how did it develop from just making tunes for fun to business? Because you live of this right?

DW: I live of it. Yeah I do. I used to origianlly work as a crane-driver, you know. Up there in the big crane, uurrrh, you know, and they get me redundant. Which means that I lose my job but they give me some money. I think it was 1.000 pounds, which is good money, and the job I didn't want it back and basically that was the last job I ever had, and from then on I started a stall, I used to have a stall that sell records, in Camden. I had that for 3 or 4 years, but the money wasn't really good and the rent keept going up, you know. So I deicided to open a studio and make it work as a business, you know. Which is good, but it has it's downsides as well, you know. Like sometimes you have to work with people you really don't want to work with, but you need the money to pay the rent. You get it ? It becomes like a job. Which can be a bit detrimental really, but I still rather be doing that than working in the crane on a building site. So evertime I get pissed off and angry with the music, I think: building site and crane and getting up six o'clock every morning and monday, you know, and then I think...music, not so bad. Even though really you don't gonna earn a lot of money, you know. You can survive. Which is good.

GLM: Yes, because you do the thing you like the most, right?

DW: Yeah, that's right.

GLM: And you been around since 198-?

DW: -89 I think. I think my first records came out in -89-90. Which was "Steppin Time" by Centry. Which I done on a little 4-track cassette, you know. Pressed a few copies and it's was alright. All good.

GLM: What ever happened to Centry by the way?

DW: Yeah, when we actually got the first studio, it was in a place called Camden, in a guy called Nigel Lake's house. N. Lake. He put the signeture N.Lake. If you check any Centry record, "Release the Chains" etc. It got N.Lake, a guy called Nigel, and the studio was in his house. But after 2-3 years he had enough of the studio being in his house. And so I had to move it to another premises, you know. And he thought like because there was no big money involved in it. He didn't want to do no more basically. So Centry came to a hold really, but I still have some more tracks I did with Centry a while back though. That I maybe can release. you know.

GLM: Future project?

DW: Uh, I'm planning to release alot of music from now on because I was signed to Dubhead records. You know Dubhead records ? They gave me a deal. Like about 10 years now or something like that. Where everything I produced I give to them and they manufacured it, you know what I mean, and we split the profit. Which was good in the beginning but now it's like it's not so hot, you know what I mean. I rather do my own thing now. Carry on. Because they start to restrict you, you know, and then they start to dictate how they want somethings and really in the beginning that was not the way it was, you know. I had total controll of what music I should give them and towards the ends they start saying: -We (Dubhead) want this like this and that like that, and I really don't wanna do it like that, you know. I rather stand in a stall and be independent.

GLM: Yeah, that's understandable, especially when you have your own record label.

DW: Yeah, that's right. But when I went to Dubhead it sort out went to the sideline. I really didn't put nothing out for a long time, because they were putting it out for me. And it's less of a burdon, because to sell records is very hard. You have to go the shops. Sometimes they don't give you the money and....hard man. Trust me, but it's good still.

GLM: And what's with all of these names and different alias? Like East meets West and so on...

DW: East Meets West, was a guy, a japanese person, illegal immigrant. He lived in Japan and he come to England. Overstays visa. He used to come and buy records from me, a regular, and he said he wanted to make music. So I said ok. So we come to the studio and we make some tunes, and say look, what we gonna call it ? And I said, because you come from Japan and I come from the west, let's call it East Meets West. I think we made nearly two LP's, before they got him and got him deported and so it got finished. Yeah, but we made two LP which is pretty good. And the reason why we have so much names is because we have so much music. And I think if you make one thing all the same, people get borred. So you have to change your name. Pseudo-name like Centry, Bush Chemists, because we make music everyday really, you know. And it's impossible to keep giving out Bush Chemists, Bush Chemists or whatever, one artist. So we got Hydrophonics, Conscious Sounds, you know what I mean. It's sort of like that.

GLM: What about Hydrophonics? It's you yourself, Kenny Knots, Culture Freeman, Singer Blue...

DW: It's the same people that make Bush Chemists, makes Hydrophonics. It's just different ideas. Hydrophonics is more like getting old tunes. Maybe sample some. Make them sound more older. Maybe sample some drums. It's like having fun, you know. With Bush Chemists it's more steppers English kinda style. All sort of syntized. Not really much samples, you know what I mean. Where with Hydrophonics it's....I listen to my old records. I take a piece here and make that. It's like remixing really. It's just a different angle, because I used to like jungle music. You know jungle? When jungle first come it was really good. Based on reggae bits, like uhhm kah uhm kah. It was exiting. Lord have mercy awh awh! (imitates a typical jungle mc). It was exiting, but after a while jungle went rubbish. They got rid of all the reggae...

GLM: Yes, it got too hard and too dark...

DW: Yeah, they made it called Intelligent. In England they call it Intelligent, but really to me it's not intelligent, because it's worse, you know. I think that the reason why they stopped put reggae on it was because they got sued, you know. All the big producers from Jamaica said that's my record. Give me some money. And so they stopped.

GLM: And what about the pseudonym A. Millgate that's...

DW: That's actually my son. That's my sons first name, before we got married and sort of thing. Anthony Millgate, you know what I mean.

GLM: So your giving him all the royalties?

DW: No, that's only my pseudonym name. I still get the royalties. When you register with PRS, they give you up to three pseudonym names, because they know the music business. They know people change there name, you know what I mean. Especially in this age of computors were one person can make the whole tune, you know. Yeah, A.Millgate is basically just me, but again it's like some people get borred of the same thing and you try to change. But now eveybody know it's me so I have to make a new one. Haha. But I'm out of pseudonym names though. I'm finished, but yeah if you listen or watch to Jah Warrior stuff you know. I didn't want to be in front of the market, too much, you know what I'm saying. Alot of artists have pseudonym names. Adrian Sheerwood and people like that...

Culture Freeman cuts in: Alter ego, you know.

DW:...it's just another way of me doing something. Hydrophonics is like that. You know with samples a bit of real drums, you know.

CF cuts in: To experiment you know.

GLM: And what's your first memory from reggae?

DW: It was when I was very small. It was from when I was about 6-7 (years). I used to live in Stonington. Which is in Hackney in London. Which is like a inner city era in London, you know. A lot of black people there and I used to live upstairs in a cansal house, and downstairs was my friend. It was a black guy. Who had a big family. I used to go to his house and his dad played records. Crab, you know Crab label? And all them old ska music. Cactus, you know. Very early 70:s. And that's how I first listened to reggae. And then from secondary school it was mainly a large black population in school. So they played reggae in the dinner and tea break. And I used to buy reggae records the same way, you know. Basically just growing up with alot of black people who loved reggae.

CF cuts in: But by that time it was the golden era still you know I mean. It was the early 70:s. That silver jubilee and that punk was just about fi lick and reggae everything that gwan you know. That golden era. I was just like a little kid them times deh you know, but still...

DW: So was I really, quit young, I wasn´t that old.

GLM: Yes, but it's going up again I think. Reggae has been down now for a long time, but now it´s coming up again because the intressted seem to have grown all over Europe.

DW: In Europe yeah, but not in England. No I don't think so. Remember England have had reggae since the 1960:s and all up til Marley died you know. What happened is that black people on the 3-4:th generation. The first black people who came here. They were in to ska, rocksteady, and there children which I grew up with, the 70:s you know what I mean. Them people was into reggae. They still looked to Jamaica as there influence. Jamaica Jamaica Jamaica. Then them people had children and them people is more into, I don't know, they're not into reggae no more, they're looking into themselfs. They're looking to England as there influece, there not looking to Jamaica no more, you know. They make their own music like garage, jungle and that's I think why reggae come down like that. Because the youngsters not buying the reggae no more. That's kinda finished, if you know what I mean. They are into their own music. Because going to London and turning on a pirate (radio) station the chance is you get garage and not really reggae you know. But I think in Europa it's getting really big. Like in France it's mad. France they love it.

GLM: Germany as well yeah?

DW: Germany is more dancehall style I think. I think so. They like the dancehall sound.

GLM: And Italy?

DW: Italy is very the same, yeah. Even France like dancehall but they like English roots and steppers as well.

GLM: And there's even a Sunsplash festival in Croatia now. So it's like growing all over.

DW: Yeah, there you go man. It's like everywere man. Because for alot of them people it's a new experince, but for people in England it's nothing new. It's been there since 1960:s, you know. From rocksteady to dub, everything, to dancehall. And I think everybody had too much. But I'm saying that places like Sweden, Croatia, they never heard reggae only Bob Marley, you know. Bob Marley, Bob Marley that's all they know really. And then they here all these other tunes and there like it's new, you know.

GLM: Ok. So what's your relation to the soundsystem culture? Have you ever tried it yourself?

DW: Oh yeah I tried. I had a sound years ago, but it was very hard work man. It's labour of love, you know. I'd love to have a soundsystem, but the work and the effort that goes in to it is like impossible. And I run a studio as well. It's too much really...

CF cuts in: No, you have to be 4-5 of you.

DW:..but there's still a few heavyweight sounds in London.

GLM: Yeah, I know it's quite of a competion there...

DW: Yeah there is quite of a competion yeah, but it´s always a competion you know.

GLM: What have inspired you, to do what you do?

DW: People like Scientist, King Tubbys, Usual Suspects, Lee Perry...

GLM: All old school people. And why do you do this you do? Why not anything else?

DW: Because it's what I like, you know, I tried to make house music and other types of music, you know. But I don't like doing it. So I just don't do it. I wish as a youngster I liked soul music, but now I would be doing dance music and be doing pretty good money. And have a big house properbly, you know what I mean. But I can't make that music. I always liked reggae music, you know. The drum and the bass.

GLM: Alright. Could you sheer a special memory that's reggae realted for us? Like what first comes in to mind when you think of reggae...

CF cuts in: I remember being at reggae sunsplash, Crystal Palace, 1984, and we get there early and it was, because The Skatalites, you know what I mean. Unforgetable you know. Jackie Mitto. Man like Tommy McCock, Jah Jerry play gitarr, you know. The guy from the harder they come on and fling two legs and move and then Prince Buster run on and them start to do all there classics, you know what I mean. Great moment, you know. Very good and people were still coming in because Skatalites old so them put them on first. So yeah. Very good.

DW: For me the memory I got is a concert that be Augustus Pablo, Junior Delgado, White Mice and Yami Bolo, in London. The first time. They come twice. -87 or was it later ? That was wicked man. That's is the best gig I been to because there was so many artists. The first to come on was Yami Bolo, you know. He could only been 16-17 (years). Singing some wicked tunes. That was a real good start, because I was buying his tunes at the time as well, you know what I mean. "She's Loving Me So" and tunes like that. But Yami Bolo been doing it since way back. There's videos seen were he done ”Carless Whisper” by George Michael. Haha...as a little kid.

CF cuts in: I remember from Youthman Promotion. Yeah he tear down the place. Bust out the tent....

DW: Yeah, that was my favorite gig when Yami Bolo come on. He was wicked, you know what I mean. Augustus Pablo come on. He was wicked and then Jux Junior Delgado come on last. Best gig I ever been to. Reggae gig I would say. My peronal opion...

GLM: I also saw Yami Bolo but here in Uppsala about 5 years ago. It was headlined by him and Iqulah but Iqulah cancelled because he got stuck in customs or something. But that was one of my best concert memories as well because it was not many people there but he just kept on for 2,5 hours just playing.

GLM: What advice could you give to a newcomer?

DW: Making dub music?

GLM: Yes.

DW: You have to have alot of perseverance, you know what I mean. Which is hard. It's very hard to make money. To actually make a living out of it. You can do it as a hobby. You got a job and when you come home from work. You have a little studio in your house which you make some dub tunes on and put some records out. And maybe when you start selling good, you can leave the job and concentrate on that, you know. But it is hard to make that transition, because you have to give up the job and the only money that come is from music. It's hard man. Trust me. Some weeks you don't get no money and some weeks you get good money. A bit money and next week nothing. So it's sort of pounds out, you know. But yeah, determination man. Seriously because it's hard.

CF cuts in: Desire and the faith, you know. As long as the desire is there. You might have something, you know, and don't give up.

GLM: Last questation then, give me two of your old favorites and two newer ones?

DW: Two killer tunes. Now that's not easy man. A tune that comes to mind is "Think Twice" by Delroy Williams. I used to love that tune...think twice (singing)...I used to have the 12-inch Rockers label from Augustus Pablo. Wicked tune…

GLM: Yes. They even re-pressed it lately on 7-inch...

DW: I think they re-pressed it, but the re-press was rubbish man. I used to have the original one. It was wicked man. ...think twice (singing)...duh duh duh duh (humming bassline), you know. That one and another tune. Well I don't know. There's too many man.

GLM: What about Yami Bolo then?

DW: No man. We're talking old 70:s stuff now. The next would be "Words of My Mouth" by The Gatherers. That's a wicked tune...

CF cuts in: Sangie Davis.

DW: And new stuff. A tune that got stuck on my mind was a tune called "He Was a Friend" by King Kong. It came out about 1986 or something like that. Wicked tune. "He Was a Friend" but man there's lots of tunes. To spit one out is hard man, because I like that period of time. In them sort of time there wasn't many tunes coming out that was reggae. "Home Sweet Home" is another one. By Willie Williams. You know that one? ...there's no place like home (singing)...yeah wicked tune. It's been repressed, so you better get that one.

CF cuts in: Classic.

GLM: On what label?

DW: Black Victory.

GLM: Alright. Thank you Dougie Wardrop...

DW: No problem man...

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